2024 Forensic assessment pdf

This chapter discuses Forensic Mental Health Assessment (FMHA), which refers to psychological evaluations that are performed by mental health professionals (typically psychologists, psychiatrists .... Ella enchanted onlyfans

Background Malingering is prevalent in PTSD, especially in delayed-onset PTSD. Despite the attempts to detect it, indicators, tools and methods to accurately detect malingering need extensive scientific and clinical research. Therefore, this study was designed to validate a tool that can detect malingering of war-related PTSD by Miller Forensic Assessment of Symptoms Test (M-FAST). Methods In ...This study analyzes the questions on aspects of child custody, visitation rights, or child endangerment that judges pose to forensic psychologists in family law proceedings. Before conducting a psychological evaluation, the legal question in the referral has to be translated into case-specific, forensically relevant issues. The only overarching principle guiding this process is the “best ...Miller Forensic Assessment of Children (MFAC) is a comprehensive assessment process designed to provide a comprehensive evaluation of the child's mental health and functioning. It is used to assess the child's current functioning, identify the child's needs, and to help develop an appropriate treatment plan. Forensic mental health assessment (FMHA) is a form of evaluation performed by a mental health professional to provide relevant clinical and scientific data to a legal decision maker or the ...Evaluative reviews are given of specialized forensic assessment instruments for each of several legal competencies. Individual chapters cover problems in assessments for legal competenies, ways to improve the legal relevance of assessments, and legal standards for forensic assessments. They also focus on competency to stand trial, the waiver of ...Jun 1, 2015 · 3. Quality Improvement in Forensic Practice. Several studies and articles have assessed the quality of forensic psychology and psychiatry practice. 10, –, 16 A review of the literature concluded that the level of practice falls short of professional aspirations for the field, although there have been incremental improvements during the 1990s. 12 No studies to date have observed forensic ... The Miller Forensic Assessment of Symptoms Test (M-FAST) is a screening measure for the detection of feigned, or malingered, mental illness. The M-FAST may be used in psychological evaluations of an adult who might be attempting to fake a psychiatric disorder. Because of the reported prevalence of malingering and difficulty of accurate ...Miller Forensic Assessment of Children (MFAC) is a comprehensive assessment process designed to provide a comprehensive evaluation of the child's mental health and functioning. It is used to assess the child's current functioning, identify the child's needs, and to help develop an appropriate treatment plan.operations, forensic intelligence is a scalable capability that can be used in various agencies. The core of every intelligence program involves many or all steps of the intelligence cycle . Forensic Intelligence Models: Assessment of Current Practices in the United States and InternationallyMiller Forensic Assessment of Children (MFAC) is a comprehensive assessment process designed to provide a comprehensive evaluation of the child's mental health and functioning. It is used to assess the child's current functioning, identify the child's needs, and to help develop an appropriate treatment plan. Department of Forensic Sciences, Washington, DC, who is involved in the development of forensic analytical methods of evidential materials. Dr. Bartick completed a Ph.D. at the Institute of Materials Science at U. Connecticut in 1978. He has worked for pharmaceutical, instrument, and a materials production companies doing analytical development.The Miller-Forensic Assessment of Symptoms Test (M-FAST) was developed to provide clinicians with a reliable and valid screen for malingered mental illness. Previous studies have demonstrated the development and initial validation of the M-FAST.A trauma-informed lens allows forensic mental health examiners to assess examinees in the context of their developmental histories and lived experience. Such a lens also has implications for the entire assessment process in terms of interviewing, psychological testing, diagnostic conclusions, feedback, and the provision of testimony and ...the forensic disciplines, declaring that “Little rigorous systematic research has been done to validate the basic premises and techniques in a number of forensic science disciplines.” and “…a statistical framework that allows quantitation … is greatly needed.” p.189. Dec 1, 2009 · In our article, we outline standard methods for the assessment of psychopathy, its association with antisocial personality disorder (ASPD), and its implications for clinical and forensic issues ... Jul 16, 2014 · This documentary revolved around a tragic event that occurred on May 7, 2000. In the walkway of the Ramada Inn in Jacksonville, Florida, Mary Ann Stephens, a 65-year-old tourist, was shot at ... The Personality Assessment Inventory (Morey, 1991) is increasingly being used in psychological assessment in the forensic arena. The paper presents an overview of the validation of the negative ...The 13 areas of functioning addressed by the CAI are the following: Appraisal of available legal defenses. Unmanageable behavior. Quality of relating to attorney. Planning of legal strategy, including guilty pleas to lesser charges where pertinent. Appraisal of the role of persons involved in a trial. Understanding of court procedure.Jan 2, 2018 · To evaluate the practical utility and face validity of a new risk assessment guideline, the Short-Term Assessment of Risk and Treatability (START), within a forensic mental health service. Staff attended training and subsequently used the START to assess and formulate risk. Aug 23, 2020 · January 2005 · The American journal of forensic psychiatry. J. Barbera. L. Tanser. C.M. Shapiro. This article presents a forensic case seen in the context of a sleep clinic. The patient/defendant ... broadly, it aims to help forensic scientists enhance their vision of ways forensic science might develop in the future and thereby facilitate continuing incremental improvements in forensic science standards and practice. This document is an OSAC Technical Series Publication2 rather than a standard or guideline. ItThe Personality Assessment Inventory (Morey, 1991) is increasingly being used in psychological assessment in the forensic arena. The paper presents an overview of the validation of the negative ...A trauma-informed lens allows forensic mental health examiners to assess examinees in the context of their developmental histories and lived experience. Such a lens also has implications for the entire assessment process in terms of interviewing, psychological testing, diagnostic conclusions, feedback, and the provision of testimony and ...Provides five scale domains—Psychosis, Low Intelligence, Neurologic Impairment, Affective Disorders, and Amnestic Disorders—as well as an overall score for probable malingering. Demonstrates sensitivity, specificity, and efficacy across both simulation and known-groups designs with honest responders, psychiatric patients, and clinical ...Jan 1, 2022 · Forensic assessment instruments must become increasingly sophisticated and must account for differences in measurement risk assessment by gender, age, culture, ability, and sexual orientation. Evaluation of female risk for violence, dangerousness, sexual offending, and recidivism remains relatively uncharted. Abstract. Violence risk assessment tools are increasingly used within criminal justice and forensic psychiatry, however there is little relevant, reliable and unbiased data regarding their predictive accuracy. We argue that such data are needed to (i) prevent excessive reliance on risk assessment scores, (ii) allow matching of different risk ...The chapters address substantive topics like acquisitive crime, domestic violence, mass murder, and sexual vio- lence, while also exploring emerging areas of research, such as the expansion of cybercrime, particularly child sexual exploitation, as well as aspects of terrorism and radicalisation.PDF | On Jul 1, 2016, Christopher M. King published Forensic assessment II: Conducting the evaluation | Find, read and cite all the research you need on ResearchGatereferred to as violence risk assessment, threat assessment, assessment of risk of harm or, in the field of forensic clinical practice, risk assessment and management. In this article we discuss this process of assessing and managing risk of harm to others in more detail and particularly as it is applied in forensic mental health settings.A trauma-informed lens allows forensic mental health examiners to assess examinees in the context of their developmental histories and lived experience. Such a lens also has implications for the entire assessment process in terms of interviewing, psychological testing, diagnostic conclusions, feedback, and the provision of testimony and ...This textbook is designed for graduate students learning forensic assessment and psychologists coming to forensic practice later in their careers. It is organized around five broad areas: Professional and Practice Issues, Adult Forensic Assessment, Juvenile Forensic Assessment, Civil Forensic Assessment, and Communicating Your Findings.The Structured Interview of Reported Symptoms (SIRS) is a fully structured interview that is designed to assess feigned mental disorders and related response styles. Each of its eight primary scales was constructed to evaluate well-established detection strategies for differentiating between malingered and genuine psychopathology.Mar 23, 2020 · In some cases, however, the application of a risk assessment tool will benefit the assessed individual. There are at least three ways in which it could confer such a benefit. First, the risk assessment may be used to identify beneficial treatments. Second, the use of a risk assessment tool may facilitate an earlier release or discharge. This study analyzes the questions on aspects of child custody, visitation rights, or child endangerment that judges pose to forensic psychologists in family law proceedings. Before conducting a psychological evaluation, the legal question in the referral has to be translated into case-specific, forensically relevant issues. The only overarching principle guiding this process is the “best ...Guideline: The Forensic Assessment S7 180 It is also recognized that policies and procedures will change with the 181 passage of time and from one setting to another. 182 The writing of forensic psychiatric reports is beyond the scope of this 183 guideline. Report-writing is a vast topic in itself, and the reader isForensic Report 12.1.07. 2013. 5. Personality Assessment Instrument (PAI) was used to determine that Salinger most likely minimized her symptoms at the time in order to portray a more positive and desirable portrait of herself. 6. Historical Clinical Risk-20 (HCR-20) Instant Offense Several days before the incident, Salinger was suffering insomnia. Jun 4, 2018 · Problems with forensic reports can be identified via two types of empirical studies: either from surveys and feedback from legal professionals on the quality of reports, or by evaluations of the extent to which reports comply with certain principles of appropriate forensic mental health assessment (Goodman-Delahunty & Dhami, 2013). the various forensic interview models. In some cases, the veracity of the child’s statement or the performance of the forensic interviewer has been questioned solely on the basis of the model being used. However, forensic interviewers often receive training in multiple models and use a blended approach to best meet the needs of theThis textbook is designed for graduate students learning forensic assessment and psychologists coming to forensic practice later in their careers. It is organized around five broad areas: Professional and Practice Issues, Adult Forensic Assessment, Juvenile Forensic Assessment, Civil Forensic Assessment, and Communicating Your Findings. broadly, it aims to help forensic scientists enhance their vision of ways forensic science might develop in the future and thereby facilitate continuing incremental improvements in forensic science standards and practice. This document is an OSAC Technical Series Publication2 rather than a standard or guideline. ItThis textbook is designed for graduate students learning forensic assessment and psychologists coming to forensic practice later in their careers. It is organized around five broad areas: Professional and Practice Issues, Adult Forensic Assessment, Juvenile Forensic Assessment, Civil Forensic Assessment, and Communicating Your Findings. Dec 6, 2019 · This chapter provides an overview of forensic mental health assessments in criminal, civil, and juvenile and family court settings. We begin with a general discussion of the nature and method of forensic assessment, highlighting the various data sources on which a forensic assessment is based and the hypothesis testing nature of the evaluation process. Risk assessment and management: forensic methods, human results† John Baird & Ruth Stocks SummaRy Risk assessment and management is an integral part of modern clinical practice. In this article we discuss best practice in the assessment and management of risk of harm to others. Unstruc tured clinical judgement methods have been Diego Rosas Wellmann. Forensic risk assessment refers to the attempt to predict the likelihood of future offending in order to identify individuals in need of intervention. Risk assessment protocols have been implemented in mental health and criminal justice settings around the globe to prioritize risk reduction strategies for those most at need. The Structured Interview of Reported Symptoms (SIRS) is a fully structured interview that is designed to assess feigned mental disorders and related response styles. Each of its eight primary scales was constructed to evaluate well-established detection strategies for differentiating between malingered and genuine psychopathology.the various forensic interview models. In some cases, the veracity of the child’s statement or the performance of the forensic interviewer has been questioned solely on the basis of the model being used. However, forensic interviewers often receive training in multiple models and use a blended approach to best meet the needs of thetication of forensic assessment instruments and forensically relevant instruments1 has increased significantly across these four decades. Since 1A forensic assessment instrument (FAI) is a tool used for the collection of information about a litigant's capacities that are directly relevant to a legal standard, such as "understanding" 4The Miller Forensic Assessment of Symptoms Test (M-FAST) is a screening instrument created to assess for potential malingering. The aim of this study was to conduct a meta-analysis to evaluate the extent to which the M-FAST total score can differentiate overreporters from comparison groups. Research reports were located through searching ...Forensic Report 12.1.07. 2013. 5. Personality Assessment Instrument (PAI) was used to determine that Salinger most likely minimized her symptoms at the time in order to portray a more positive and desirable portrait of herself. 6. Historical Clinical Risk-20 (HCR-20) Instant Offense Several days before the incident, Salinger was suffering insomnia.Quality Improvement in Forensic Practice Several studies and articles have assessed the qual-ity of forensic psychology and psychiatry prac-tice. 10–16 A review of the literature concluded that the level of practice falls short of professional aspira-tions for the field, although there have been incre-mental improvements during the 1990s. 12 ...Jan 1, 2004 · Forensic mental health assessment (FMHA) is a form of evaluation performed by a mental health professional to provide relevant clinical and scientific data to a legal decision maker or the ... Book details. The Minnesota Multiphasic Personality Inventory–2 (MMPI–2) is one of the most widely researched and used assessment tools in psychology. Forensic psychologists often rely on it to evaluate clients involved in civil and criminal cases. Because the test results can have a significant influence on court decisions, psychologists ...Request PDF | Forensic assessment of criminal maturity in juvenile homicide offenders in the United States | The United States Supreme Court in Jones vs. Mississippi (2021) reinforced the Miller ...To evaluate the practical utility and face validity of a new risk assessment guideline, the Short-Term Assessment of Risk and Treatability (START), within a forensic mental health service. Staff attended training and subsequently used the START to assess and formulate risk.Book details. The Minnesota Multiphasic Personality Inventory–2 (MMPI–2) is one of the most widely researched and used assessment tools in psychology. Forensic psychologists often rely on it to evaluate clients involved in civil and criminal cases. Because the test results can have a significant influence on court decisions, psychologists ...acceptable current ways of performing these forensic evaluations, and following this Guideline does not lead to a guaranteed outcome. Differing fact pat-terns, clinical factors, relevant statutes, administra-tive and case law, and the psychiatrist’s judgment determine how to proceed in any individual forensic evaluation. Forensic assessment is one of the basic building blocks that form the foundation of the practice of psychiatryandthelaw,inadditiontoreport-writing and giving testimony in court. Similar to any foun- dation, the integrity of the process depends on how well each brick is laid upon the other. Forensic Report 12.1.07. 2013. 5. Personality Assessment Instrument (PAI) was used to determine that Salinger most likely minimized her symptoms at the time in order to portray a more positive and desirable portrait of herself. 6. Historical Clinical Risk-20 (HCR-20) Instant Offense Several days before the incident, Salinger was suffering insomnia. Patients with Axis I disorders often fluctuate markedly in their clinical presentations in forensic and other professional settings. Although such fluctuations could suggest ineffectual efforts at malingering, more likely explanations include confusion or poor insight into psychopathology, imprecision in the assessment methods, or actual changes in symptomatology. An important concern is ...The Structured Interview of Reported Symptoms (SIRS) is a fully structured interview that is designed to assess feigned mental disorders and related response styles. Each of its eight primary scales was constructed to evaluate well-established detection strategies for differentiating between malingered and genuine psychopathology.Mar 23, 2020 · In some cases, however, the application of a risk assessment tool will benefit the assessed individual. There are at least three ways in which it could confer such a benefit. First, the risk assessment may be used to identify beneficial treatments. Second, the use of a risk assessment tool may facilitate an earlier release or discharge. Apr 13, 2021 · This study analyzes the questions on aspects of child custody, visitation rights, or child endangerment that judges pose to forensic psychologists in family law proceedings. Before conducting a psychological evaluation, the legal question in the referral has to be translated into case-specific, forensically relevant issues. The only overarching principle guiding this process is the “best ... A trusted reference in the field of psychology, offering more than 25,000 clear and authoritative entries. In some cases, however, the application of a risk assessment tool will benefit the assessed individual. There are at least three ways in which it could confer such a benefit. First, the risk assessment may be used to identify beneficial treatments. Second, the use of a risk assessment tool may facilitate an earlier release or discharge.May 22, 2020 · broadly, it aims to help forensic scientists enhance their vision of ways forensic science might develop in the future and thereby facilitate continuing incremental improvements in forensic science standards and practice. This document is an OSAC Technical Series Publication2 rather than a standard or guideline. It The current literature review examines the assessment of malingering in adult forensic populations with a focus on recent applications of measures for identifying feigned psychiatric symptoms. Although a large amount of research on malingering assessment exists, such a review is needed given the limited research on factors thatAssessment Tools in Forensic Settings! Forensic Assessment Tools for Competency, Malingering and Neuropsychological Screening Presentation for Legal Competency and Restoration Training for Mental Health Experts Paul Simpson, Ed.D., [email protected], February 23, 2012 I. “Why bother with testing?” 1) The tectonic shift of Daubert & Rule ...the forensic disciplines, declaring that “Little rigorous systematic research has been done to validate the basic premises and techniques in a number of forensic science disciplines.” and “…a statistical framework that allows quantitation … is greatly needed.” p.189. Jun 4, 2018 · Problems with forensic reports can be identified via two types of empirical studies: either from surveys and feedback from legal professionals on the quality of reports, or by evaluations of the extent to which reports comply with certain principles of appropriate forensic mental health assessment (Goodman-Delahunty & Dhami, 2013). The influence of demographic, ethnic, and cultural variables on the Minnesota Multiphasic Personality Inventory—2 (MMPI–2) has been a source of extensive inquiry and research because these factors may modify the way in which psychopathology will be manifested or is interpreted by the examiner. These factors are particularly relevant in ...tication of forensic assessment instruments and forensically relevant instruments1 has increased significantly across these four decades. Since 1A forensic assessment instrument (FAI) is a tool used for the collection of information about a litigant's capacities that are directly relevant to a legal standard, such as "understanding" 4 Jun 1, 2015 · 3. Quality Improvement in Forensic Practice. Several studies and articles have assessed the quality of forensic psychology and psychiatry practice. 10, –, 16 A review of the literature concluded that the level of practice falls short of professional aspirations for the field, although there have been incremental improvements during the 1990s. 12 No studies to date have observed forensic ... The influence of demographic, ethnic, and cultural variables on the Minnesota Multiphasic Personality Inventory—2 (MMPI–2) has been a source of extensive inquiry and research because these factors may modify the way in which psychopathology will be manifested or is interpreted by the examiner. These factors are particularly relevant in ... The forensic interviews conducted with alleged victims of child maltreatment are often essential to the investigation because, particularly in sexual abuse cases, the alleged victim and alleged perpetrator may be the only people who know what really happened.AAPL Practice Guideline for the Forensic Assessment J Am Acad Psychiatry Law. 2015 Jun;43(2 Suppl):S3-53. Epub 2015 Jun 8. Authors Graham D Glancy ... The M-FAST is a brief 25-item screening interview for individuals ages 18 years and older that provides preliminary information regarding the probability that an individual is feigning psychiatric illness. Most malingering and symptom validity instruments assess malingered cognitive and/or neuropsychological deficits. Quality Improvement in Forensic Practice Several studies and articles have assessed the qual-ity of forensic psychology and psychiatry prac-tice. 10–16 A review of the literature concluded that the level of practice falls short of professional aspira-tions for the field, although there have been incre-mental improvements during the 1990s. 12 ...Gold standard forensic assessment conducted using all available information (file + interview) 20 items rated on 3-point scale Absent = 0; Possible/partial = 1; Present = 2 Glibness/superficial charm 0 1 2 Grandiose sense of self-worth 0 1 2 Lack of remorse or guilt 0 1 2It presents forensic assessments based on psychophysiology, and assessments on the basis of non-verbal behavior. The book also covers interview and interrogation preparation, as well as question formulation. It discusses the Morgan Interview Theme Technique or MITT, and the Forensic Assessment Interview or FAINT.Book details. The Minnesota Multiphasic Personality Inventory–2 (MMPI–2) is one of the most widely researched and used assessment tools in psychology. Forensic psychologists often rely on it to evaluate clients involved in civil and criminal cases. Because the test results can have a significant influence on court decisions, psychologists ...Forensic mental health assessment (FMHA) is a form of evaluation performed by a mental health professional to provide relevant clinical and scientific data to a legal decision maker or the ...Abstract. This book presents a set of criminal cases as examples of a scientist-practitioner model for forensic psychological assessment. The cases involve a number of forensic issues, such as ...Risk assessment and management: forensic methods, human results† John Baird & Ruth Stocks SummaRy Risk assessment and management is an integral part of modern clinical practice. In this article we discuss best practice in the assessment and management of risk of harm to others. Unstruc tured clinical judgement methods have been Assessment Tools in Forensic Settings! Forensic Assessment Tools for Competency, Malingering and Neuropsychological Screening Presentation for Legal Competency and Restoration Training for Mental Health Experts Paul Simpson, Ed.D., [email protected], February 23, 2012 I. “Why bother with testing?” 1) The tectonic shift of Daubert & Rule ...Book details. The Minnesota Multiphasic Personality Inventory–2 (MMPI–2) is one of the most widely researched and used assessment tools in psychology. Forensic psychologists often rely on it to evaluate clients involved in civil and criminal cases. Because the test results can have a significant influence on court decisions, psychologists ...Dec 6, 2019 · This chapter provides an overview of forensic mental health assessments in criminal, civil, and juvenile and family court settings. We begin with a general discussion of the nature and method of forensic assessment, highlighting the various data sources on which a forensic assessment is based and the hypothesis testing nature of the evaluation process.

This textbook is designed for graduate students learning forensic assessment and psychologists coming to forensic practice later in their careers. It is organized around five broad areas: Professional and Practice Issues, Adult Forensic Assessment, Juvenile Forensic Assessment, Civil Forensic Assessment, and Communicating Your Findings.. Star sessions porn

Miller Forensic Assessment of Symptoms Test (M-FAST): Developed as a screening instrument designed to identify malingered psychopathology. It is a 25-item structured interview that can be administered in approximately 5 minutes. The M-FAST consists of items rationally derived from the literature onMar 2, 2016 · Substance abuse and crime: considerations for a comprehensive forensic assessment “Insuperable fear”, in the legal-criminal sense, entails the well-founded fear of serious, imminent harm, clouding The current literature review examines the assessment of malingering in adult forensic populations with a focus on recent applications of measures for identifying feigned psychiatric symptoms. Although a large amount of research on malingering assessment exists, such a review is needed given the limited research on factors thatForensic assessment instruments must become increasingly sophisticated and must account for differences in measurement risk assessment by gender, age, culture, ability, and sexual orientation. Evaluation of female risk for violence, dangerousness, sexual offending, and recidivism remains relatively uncharted.The whole process is easy and quick. Check below to find out. go to the free PDF Editor page. Drag or drop a document you want to edit by clicking Choose File or simply dragging or dropping. Conduct the desired edits on your document with the toolbar on the top of the dashboard. Download the file once it is finalized . Miller Forensic Assessment of Symptoms Test (M-FAST at PAR) The M-FAST is a brief 25-item screening interview for individuals ages 18 years and older that provides preliminary information regarding the probability that an individual is feigning psychiatric illness. A recent Australian study that examined whether reports involving risk assessments conformed to best forensic practice found that some experts applied unreliable methods of risk assessment and incorrectly reported the results of risk assessment tools (Doyle, Ogloff, & Thomas, 2011). The failure to use and interpret the appropriate psychometric ...The Miller Forensic Assessment of Symptoms Test (M-FAST) is a screening instrument created to assess for potential malingering. The aim of this study was to conduct a meta-analysis to evaluate the extent to which the M-FAST total score can differentiate overreporters from comparison groups. Research reports were located through searching ... 10.02 Selection and Use of Assessment Procedures. Forensic practitioners use assessment procedures in the manner and for the purposes that are appropriate in light of the research on or evidence of their usefulness and proper application (EPPCC Standard 9.02, American Educational Research Association, American Psychological Association ...A recent Australian study that examined whether reports involving risk assessments conformed to best forensic practice found that some experts applied unreliable methods of risk assessment and incorrectly reported the results of risk assessment tools (Doyle, Ogloff, & Thomas, 2011). The failure to use and interpret the appropriate psychometric ...Miller Forensic Assessment of Symptoms Test (M-FAST): Developed as a screening instrument designed to identify malingered psychopathology. It is a 25-item structured interview that can be administered in approximately 5 minutes. The M-FAST consists of items rationally derived from the literature on 2.01 Scope of Competence. When determining one’s competence to provide services in a particular matter, forensic practitioners may consider a variety of factors including the relative complexity and specialized nature of the service, relevant training and experience, the preparation and study they are able to devote to the matter, and the opportunity for consultation with a professional of ... The Forensic Psychologist’s Casebook explores the complexities surrounding offender profiling and police investigations. The book contains 16 chapters divided into two parts, with Chapters 1–8 dealing with the context of criminal investigations and Chapters 9–16 providing practical advice to investigators.Dec 1, 2009 · In our article, we outline standard methods for the assessment of psychopathy, its association with antisocial personality disorder (ASPD), and its implications for clinical and forensic issues ... Forensic mental health assessment (FMHA) is a form of evaluation performed by a mental health professional to provide relevant clinical and scientific data to a legal decision maker or the ...Third-party information in forensic assessment is obtained from sources other than the individual being evaluated, most often from relevant records or interviews of collateral observers. Although ....

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